Curse

AydenV2 · May 04, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Maybe the reason you have no shot at gaining access to these elite, competitive PvE missions is that you're not competitive...not even having the drive to do something as simple as setting up a time to dump faction.

To all the people who are again using the silly logic that you're being denied access to "a part of the game that you paid for", that's just ridiculous. You bought a game that labels itself as a competitive roleplaying game, you paid for the ability to compete for the best stuff. Frankly, it's no mystery to me why the top alliances have decent to heavy PvP guild involvement; these are the people who, instead of immediately going to the forums to bitch and whine, actually have the drive to go out and grab what they want in the game.

/agreed 100%. You get what you pay for, if you dont want to take the time and effort that the high end guilds are using for these missions, why should you have access to them?

aron searle · May 04, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

/agreed 100%. You get what you pay for, if you dont want to take the time and effort that the high end guilds are using for these missions, why should you have access to them?

2 Words

Casual Gamer

AydenV2 · May 04, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

2 Words

Casual Gamer

Since when has PVP EVER, in ANY game catered to the casual gamer? PvE is casual enough and this elite missions are more of a bonus/side mission than anything. It doesn't take away from your storyline, it doesnt provide items you need for the main quest or any other quests, so why must casual gamers get the free ride to access it?

Vel Satis · May 04, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitsu Bishi

You are happy with max stat armor and weapons and normal missions -> buy Droks, collector's items and play the game without bothering about grind

You want to be shiny and access special content -> farm, grind and enjoy

You want to be shiny and access special content without grinding -> well, I'd like to be a millionaire, too without having to work for it but life isn't that fair to me unfortunately

How about 'You want to access content without grinding'? You are confusing content with items, there is a huge difference between a set of armour with a different look and an entire high level mission. I don't care about not getting FoW armour or any of the other rare stuff because I am happy with droks etc. and I don't get any less of a game than someone who spends hours just grinding. If I don't want to grind faction then I will get less of a game than someone who has hours to sit at their computer every day.

The point is supposed to be skill over time spent, right? How can they justify this when you don't get to play the entire game unless you grind for faction?

Gli · May 04, 2006, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

Since when has PVP EVER, in ANY game catered to the casual gamer? PvE is casual enough and this elite missions are more of a bonus/side mission than anything. It doesn't take away from your storyline, it doesnt provide items you need for the main quest or any other quests, so why must casual gamers get the free ride to access it?

Why can't I just team up with my real-life buddies with whom I share a rather small guild and earn this access on the merit of our own skills?

Why are we forced to rely on people we've never met before? (People who frankly I don't have any desire to meet) People who are playing in different instances? Why should my options in the game be determined by events outside of my ability to participate in? That's not good game design by any stretch of the imagination. Every other aspect of the game prior to this factions/alliances nonsense was accessible by the core playing unit: a party. That's how this game should be. Anything beyond that is just so much rubbish.

AydenV2 · May 04, 2006, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Why can't I just team up with my real-life buddies with whom I share a rather small guild and earn this access on the merit of our own skills?

Why are we forced to rely on people we've never met before? (People who frankly I don't have any desire to meet) People who are playing in different instances? Why should my options in the game be determined by events outside of my ability to participate in? That's not good game design by any stretch of the imagination. Every other aspect of the game prior to this factions/alliances nonsense was accessible by the core playing unit: a party. That's how this game should be. Anything beyond that is just so much rubbish.

They game is built around competition, the better man wins, because the better man deserves it.

Take basketball for example. You play a game with another team, whoever wins gets some cash you will use to buy a good time of some sort, whether it be movies or whatnot. They are far better than your team, and are whooping your rear. Do you expect them to give you a chance at the cash while they are still striving for the same goal?

It's all about the competition, if you can't compete then you are not worthy of the prize, plain and simple.

aron searle · May 04, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

They game is built around competition, the better man wins, because the better man deserves it.

Take basketball for example. You play a game with another team, whoever wins gets some cash you will use to buy a good time of some sort, whether it be movies or whatnot. They are far better than your team, and are whooping your rear. Do you expect them to give you a chance at the cash while they are still striving for the same goal?

It's all about the competition, if you can't compete then you are not worthy of the prize, plain and simple.

A casual gamer can still be skilled.

I dont know why you are arguing that time played should = skill.

Esprit · May 04, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

It's just that acquiring Elite Missions is so conditional on such limiting factors. You either have to have a big guild with a lot of PvP focused players are you find an Alliance that has such players. It's not because your guild or its players don't have any skill.

AydenV2 · May 04, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

A casual gamer can still be skilled.

I dont know why you are arguing that time played should = skill.

Time played does equal skill, in some sense. More time played means more experiences. More chances to see your build fail, more chances to build upon your build with the knowledge you got in the PVP field.

I agree with you, casuals can be skilled. Some people are born to game, and are good at it right off the bat.

When I mean time played, I also mean devotion. When you see someone play guild wars PVP for hours and hours, you know he is diehard devoted to this game. All of his heart and soul pour into this game. He is more devouted then casual gamers are. So, why should he have to work hard to get to the same goal you are, why do you expect to be placed at his level (regarding missions) without doing all the hard work that it took him to get there.

See what I mean? I don't mean to argue, its just the way I think, I am very critical at times.

Gli · May 04, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

They game is built around competition, the better man wins, because the better man deserves it.

Take basketball for example. You play a game with another team, whoever wins gets some cash you will use to buy a good time of some sort, whether it be movies or whatnot. They are far better than your team, and are whooping your rear. Do you expect them to give you a chance at the cash while they are still striving for the same goal?

It's all about the competition, if you can't compete then you are not worthy of the prize, plain and simple.

Why do you bother quoting me if you don't address any point I raise in my post?

What if, hypothetically speaking, my small guild can totally and utterly humiliate any team any of the big alliances can throw at us? I still won't be able to win access, because they have 99 other teams grinding away, racking up more points in an hour than we can hope to make in week.

It's not about skill, it's about numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

Time played does equal skill, in some sense. More time played means more experiences. More chances to see your build fail, more chances to build upon your build with the knowledge you got in the PVP field.

I agree with you, casuals can be skilled. Some people are born to game, and are good at it right off the bat.

When I mean time played, I also mean devotion. When you see someone play guild wars PVP for hours and hours, you know he is diehard devoted to this game. All of his heart and soul pour into this game. He is more devouted then casual gamers are. So, why should he have to work hard to get to the same goal you are, why do you expect to be placed at his level (regarding missions) without doing all the hard work that it took him to get there.

See what I mean? I don't mean to argue, its just the way I think, I am very critical at times.

You really don't get it do you? It's not about anyone's skill or hard work in particular. It's about how many people are working along with you. You can have the best frigging 8 man PvP squad, play for hours every day, you can win the GvG championship, and still not amount to anything in the alliance faction rating scheme.

It makes no sense whatsoever that our gaming experience is decided by other people who I might never even share an instance with.

Esprit · May 04, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

When I mean time played, I also mean devotion. When you see someone play guild wars PVP for hours and hours, you know he is diehard devoted to this game. All of his heart and soul pour into this game. He is more devouted then casual gamers are. So, why should he have to work hard to get to the same goal you are, why do you expect to be placed at his level (regarding missions) without doing all the hard work that it took him to get there.

So casual gamers get restricted access to certain things, because they have jobs, are in school, i.e. have to deal with real life and cannot afford to grind? That logic seems a little backwards, as a good percentage of Guild Wars players are casual gamers, who have jobs and a real life, and can afford to pay for the game, but just don't have as much time to play, compared to the hardcore players.

myword · May 04, 2006, 12:27 PM // 12:27

your alliance gains control of towns by offering the most faction points i take it?

if not then ignore the rest of my post

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

/agreed 100%. You get what you pay for, if you dont want to take the time and effort that the high end guilds are using for these missions, why should you have access to them?

i'd be hesitant to call guilds that hold towns in the current system 'high end'
if your definition of 'high end' = large amount of active members to zerg for faction points then maybe, but that's not what the term means

perhaps instead of sweat shop gold farmers, there'll be sweat shop challenge mission faction farmers you can hire for your alliance. yes, there are challenge missions where you can let your henchmen do all the work while you sit there and still get 1.5k faction easily.

the current system granting entry to the 'elite missions' is not based on skill over time, it's time over skill, if you try to claim otherwise, you're confused or you haven't learned how to expoilt certain challenge missions.

Theus · May 04, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

I belive its stupid to only allow 2000 people out of ,what,1 million players, to have access to an area simply because they have people alliance battling around the clock.

Its basicly Numbers > Skill.

I mean, do you see any well known HoH/GvG guilds taking control of such cities?Of course not, they're guilds arent simply jam packed with players they simply picked up in RA.

Perhaps they should add the ability to challenge such guilds?I mean..after all, if they have enough people to have 1000000+ faction, they should have enough for a GvG correct?

gragman · May 04, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

Time played does equal skill, in some sense. More time played means more experiences. More chances to see your build fail, more chances to build upon your build with the knowledge you got in the PVP field.

I agree with you, casuals can be skilled. Some people are born to game, and are good at it right off the bat.

When I mean time played, I also mean devotion. When you see someone play guild wars PVP for hours and hours, you know he is diehard devoted to this game. All of his heart and soul pour into this game. He is more devouted then casual gamers are. So, why should he have to work hard to get to the same goal you are, why do you expect to be placed at his level (regarding missions) without doing all the hard work that it took him to get there.

See what I mean? I don't mean to argue, its just the way I think, I am very critical at times.

Excuse me if i'm wrong, but why are you arguing a case against people being allowed access to a PvE area using an argument based around playing in a PvP environment?

Time played != skill, time played == knowledge. Some people may know an awful lot about the game, its dynamics and interaction but STILL not be as good as others with less time played. Its a simple fact.

I personally am a dedicated player, had an account for a little over 4 months now, played 1100 hours (I think I'm married also

). I belive that I am as equally devoted as the PvP player you mention in your post, however the guild I am in, and which I enjoy being in and will not leave, is not large enough, or allied to a large enough alliance, to have the requisite amount of faction to gain control of an elite mission area. We would, however, have as good a chance of successfully completing an Elite Mission as any other team/guild/alliance.

My overall view? Somewhat unhappy with the way this is looking ATM, however not giving up hope entirely

Loralai · May 04, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Interesting that Anet makes an attempt to remove the "grind" for gold, weapons, and mods by implementing better drops, yet hands over yet another grind scenario via faction. All points made about this being "numbers over skill" are 100% correct, I don't see how anyone could dispute that. If you have an alliance of 5 guilds with 8 people in each, total of 40 people, they would not be on the same competitive level for "FACTION GRIND" as the alliance with 10 guilds of 100 people each, total 1000. Someone explain to me please, how that has anything whatsoever to do with skill? Repeating the same faction-grinding missions/challenges over and over has no merited standing in skill at all...........

torquemada · May 04, 2006, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Someone please point out to me the part where Anet said they were going to introduce forced grind for access to content.

Finally, someone said it. This is not skill, this is HUGE enforced GRIND.

Faction=number_0f_ppl * hours_grinding

You bloody insert skill here... Grind is never about skill. It's about that time until your eyes bulge out or your mommy haules you to bed by yer friggin ears.

Should I just disband my guild for the sake of grinding?? Hell, I could be playing WoW right now (which I refuse) and get hell of a lot more content from grinding.

Honestly I didn't play WoW coz of people who play it maniacally 0-24....total hardcore with dobious skill involved. I appriciate skill, not some bullshit grind.

I won't lose my character, nor my guild, nor anything for fcking grind. Not ever.

If this is any indicator in which direction this game is turning....

/ragequit

EDIT. PS. Time may be skill-contributing, but grinding is definitely not. Your grind=subscription fee money (I wonder, I wonder)

Lucifer PVP · May 04, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

I played the elite mission on friday and saturday for the kuricks ... honestly it isn't anything special. According to the strat guide there are unique greens that drop but i didn't see any, but i do agree it should be open to everyone. The controlling alliance should be able to do it for free and everyone else should have to pay like 5k or something.

Esprit · May 04, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

It seems like the most common solution is a gold sink. We don't need another gold sink. If ANET is even considering fixing the way Elite Missions are accessed they shouldn't cop out with a gold sink.

Takeko Nakano · May 04, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

It seems like the most common solution is a gold sink. We don't need another gold sink. If ANET is even considering fixing the way Elite Missions are accessed they shouldn't cop out with a gold sink.

Indeed. A faction point sink would be a good idea, as it would stop people from spending it all on amber/jadeite. But a money sink like 5k would be extreme.

Here's another idea. Why not increase faction point decay according to the size of the alliance? Or have a proportional reduction in the amount an alliance benefits from faction gifts according to its size? Obviously it wouldn't be 1:1 (as that would remove the point in having alliances), but perhaps 1:2 or 1:3. That would still give an incentive to get in an alliance, but give smaller groupings more of a chance to gain control.

torquemada · May 04, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

I really don't care about elite missions (if there's only 2 of em)...what I am afraid they're trying to do is turn this action-pumped game of skill into a zombie-grind on massive scale.

It's not really about 2 mission access, but the willingness of people to abandon anything for the sake of those and join a huge mass of strangers.